now i like torchwood as much as the next fangirl. I love Jack & ianto and i'm all for the chance that he could possibly come back. i am a member of SIJ and all aswell just for the record.

Ive been a big supporter of John's and gareth's and go to everything im able in order to support them and their careers.

i dont agree with what RTD did to torchwood or even Dr Who in the final episodes of David's tennure.

but dont slam me here, but if people keep having a go at Starz over various aspects dont you think that there's the possibility that they might, pull their funding and run from the project all together.

To be honest I think a campaign to "tell Starz exactly what we think of TW4" is either going to be completely ignored or have the total opposite effect and make Starz not want to touch Torchwood with a bargepole!

I hate the fact that Ianto died and that his relationship with Jack was never fully explored, but I'm still going to give series 4 a chance and if I don't like the direction it takes, I'll just not watch it!

Whilst I probably won't be watching series 4 because of Ianto being gone and the new International setting for the show - I liked the intimacy of Cardiff - I have more or less accepted the fact that my feelings about Ianto were stronger than the average viewers's and that Torchwood has always been a depressing show.

Rusty's main job with Torchwood is to create drama and heartbreak and that's what he achieves. Yes it's annoying that Gwen and Rhys go from strength to strength whilst Ianto, Owen and Tosh constantly suffered in their personal lives but Gwen is the show's leading lady and Ianto, Owen and Tosh were not. Please stop making Ianto fans look immature in the face of reality and just keep Ianto's memory alive in the world of fanfic.

It's not immature to voice difference of opinions,and it's certainly not true that just because something is "reality" at the moment it will continue to be so. This is especially true when you're dealing with a show that's going to be aired by an American station. American stations depend on fan opinion in order to survive. There've been many campaigns to bring characters back that have worked in U.S. tv.
Also,out of all genres,sci-fi is the one least based in reality,so a simple thing like a death can be reversed,lol. Even if the show won't be focused on sci-fi,it still will have those elements to it. Jack is still immortal,for example.

I agree it's not immature to have a difference of opinion - I personally don't think RTD is aware of just how strong the chemistry between Jack and Ianto could be - but RTD is a writer of drama, not 'happily ever after' romance and in the end, this is what killed Ianto. Torchwood kills innocent characters all the time.

A major production company is not going to alter its plans for series 4 because a few fans are upset about how COE turned out. COE was a success with casual viewers, who make up the majority of a show's audience. RTD has the story for series 4 firmly mapped in his head and casting is going to be begin soon, there's no way things will change now. British producers don't bend to fan complaints like some US producers do. Many fans of Doctor Who didn't like the idea of Catherine Tate joining the show a few years ago but RTD remained firm about her casting and in the end, most of those same fans came to like her.

O_O ... "a FEW fans"???? Excuse me but there are a Helluva lot more than "a few fans" upset by the heinous disaster known as CoE. Rusty destroyed everything that made TW special.. turning it into an Excalibur/Gwenwood/Covert American style farce. If I wanted to watch a dark sci-fi/bad secret govt show, I'd put The X-Files on... better show, done right.
BTW, I have already let Starz know that I have cancelled my subscription. The best revenge is always the financial one.

COE wasn't a henious disaster, it was a hit with the vast majority of fans and critics, that's all TPTB will care about. If a million COE viewers had contacted the BBC to complain at the time, it would be a different matter but a few hundred upset fans isn't going to move anyone. Over at forums like Gallifrey Base and the BBC's own Points of View website, most Torchwood fans are looking forward to series 4.

I have some issues with the handling of the Jack/Ianto relationship in COE but the story itself was a success with the public in general.

And Gwen wasn't the main star of COE, I'd say it was Frobisher. Fans of Owen and Tosh didn't behave in this way after they'd died and Owen was my second favourite character after Ianto.

I think what killed Ianto is that he eclipsed the character RTD wanted to focus on all along-Gwen. I don't dislike Gwen so this is not about bashing her-it's just a fact that the show RTD wanted was NOT the one he ended up with,and when he saw a chance to rectify that he jumped on it.
He is so full of contradictory statements I doubt even he knows what he wants much of the time. He's said "you don't leave the hero crying in the rain", "you don't destroy the hero",and also "writers are like God and it's a joy to be able to kill off a character". He DID change his mind about bringing back Rose because,according to him "the ratings were good and that's what he gets paid for. If someone doesn't like it I tell them to look at my money".(the last few words are paraphrased,but that was the gist of the quote).
If Starz-which is not yet a major player in American television but wants to be- is shown that people want the show in a different direction they certainly could push for that.Successful campaigns have been run for characters with a lot smaller fan base than Ianto has,and with major studios like Fox backing the show.
Even if the season is set,there's no telling what could happen in the future. Episodes can be edited,endings changed,etc-and there's always the next season if the show gets picked up for another one. I'm still going to make my feelings known. My experience with American TV is that anything can be changed if public opinion is strong enough. So I'm not giving up yet! :)

If RTD killed Ianto because he was more popular than Gwen, he would have killed him at the end of series 2, not waited until COE. As it is, Ianto was originally meant to die in series 2 but it was changed to Owen at the last minute. I think Dead Man Walking was a bit of a mess because of the sudden change and would have made more sense with Ianto because of Jack's emotional outburst when he goes to find the second glove etc but at least we had Ianto for another series as a result.

It was my understanding that RTD wasn't very involved in S2,so that's probably why he didn't kill him off then. The rest of the writing/production team saw the potential RTD didn't want to see(also,supposedly the production team felt watching Owen go through the "undead" trauma would be more striking since you had seen so much more of his personal life than you had Ianto's so you'd have more of a feel for his predicament).
Unfortunately CoE was totally RTD's creation(or rather,rip off)so the characters were OOC,and the interaction/relationship between Jack and Ianto regressed. As a set up for S4 and the new (old) story he wanted to tell,Ianto had to be gotten out of the way.
I wouldn't be surprised if Rhys doesn't survive the season-especially if they get commissioned for a S5. Then we probably will see Gwen and Jack(assuming Jack is still around and hasn't either lost his immortality or gone "off world" again).

Torchwood has been killing people right from the start - Suzie, Owen, Tosh, Tommy, Lisa, the real Captain Jack, Owen's finacee Katie etc. RTD even thought about killing Rhys perminantly at one point too. The real Captain Jack wasn't killed because he was more popular than Gwen, he was killed as a reminder of Jack's tragic life, just like with Ianto. Ianto's story was never going to end happily. RTD as a writer doesn't get as attached to fictional characters as viewers do.

Gwen is the show's leading lady and as much as I hated the fact that she got far too much attention and love during series 1 and 2, that is the way many dramas work. According to his book, Russell also thought about killing Mickey in Doctor Who at one point, a character liked by most viewers but again, not a leading man or a leading lady.

I would love to Ianto come back, Owen and Tosh as well, but it won't happen.

From my experience, when fans rally for a cause it is usually ignored. Very, very rarely will you see a network change its mind regarding bringing back a show or a character based on their fanbase.

That said, I am still looking forward to TW4 because I miss Jack a lot too. It may or may not work, all we can do is wait and see.

I went over there to see what you were talking about. It left me confused. I did see some notes saying that they wanted Ianto Jones back and that they would not watch it. There were also messages saying how vicious the antiTW4 people were and couldn't they all get along. So it's okay to like TW4 and say you are going to watch it no matter what but if you say you won't watch TW4, didn't like COE, would like Ianto, Tosh, and/or Owen back, and don't like Gwen you are being vicious, unreasonable and don't seem to be entitled to voice your opinion. It appeared to me that those who were not blindly RTD's lines were not welcomed there.

Do we have an actual quote of him saying that he killed off Ianto because folks enjoyed watching him more than Gwen? Cause I hear this from a lot of people- I'm not singling you out or anything, enkanowen- but I have yet to see him actually saying something along those lines. So I'm just wondering if this is a conclusion that a lot of people drew, or something he said?